KICKAHA “Your claims on 'thousands' of copies of the New Testament that was compiled 'within 70 years of Jesus' death' don't match my own research, nor that of most biblical scholars I have conversed with on such subjects."
BIBLIOBUG I'm quoting Dr. Metzger of the Princeton Theological Seminary, who claims that there are over 5,000 extant copies of the New Testament dating to within a century (many to within 70 years) of Jesus’ death in Greek alone. That’s not counting the several thousand odd in Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, Aramaic, etc. The abundance of early copies is important because comparing copies – particularly different translations from different geographic areas – permits translators to re-create the original text very accurately. With so many copies produced by so many different people – the chances of any substantive error is infinitesimal. (“The Making of the New Testament,” Arthur Patzia)
The Old Testament is an oral tradition only preserved in writing after many generations of re-telling. However, archeology keeps confirming more and more of the ancient stories (no one believed that the Hittites existed until recently, for instance). So, it falls into the ‘pretty good bet’ category. Also, the Old Testament has been ‘self-validated’ through prophecies fulfilled. (“The Messiah in the Old Testament,” Walter Kaiser)
KICKAHA "You realize that the Bible is at best questionable in accuracy due to the multiple flawed translations and versions?”
BIBLIOBUG I don’t realize that at all. The New Testament is HIGHLY accurate, with no major Christian doctrine in dispute, and the Old Testament is also pretty darned good. How do you justify “the Bible is at best questionable in accuracy…” an unsupported assertion at odds with the vast majority of biblical scholarship? Please explain.
KICKAHA “Remember, you have yet to make a plausible argument for the existence of a soul, so invoking that as a more precious item is not a logical and rational counter-argument.”
BIBLIOBUG Didn’t know I needed to, but here goes. Every human society that I’ve ever heard of has independently arrived at the concept of a soul (“Moral Animal,” Robert Wright, “The Power of Myth,” Joseph Campbell). Wishful thinking? Perhaps. More likely to be the result of primary experience (Occam’s razor).
Spirituality is built in to human beings. Using sophisticated brain-imaging techniques. Dr. Andy Newberg of the University of Pennsylvania, author of “Why God Won't Go Away,” has documented changes in blood flow in particular regions of the brain during prayer and meditation. Generally speaking, animals do not develop nor long retain useless attributes. Therefore a built-in ‘prayer mechanism’ argues powerfully for a recipient of prayer (God) and a generator of prayer (a soul).
Finally, subtle measurements of terminally ill patients show that at death, the patient loses a few fractions of an ounce that can not be accounted for by any known physiologic mechanism. What leaves? I speculate it is the soul departing.
In sum, I present three arguments for the existence of the soul (1) primary experience – admittedly subjective but extraordinarily wide-spread, (2) the existence of a “prayer mechanism,” inherent in the brain, implying the existence of a soul, and (3) people lose weight at death, which I speculate is the soul departing.
Lady, you just got yourself banned due to sheer rampant rudeness and a blindingly shining example of selfcenteredness. So you post anonymously? Amazing.
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kickaha
Re: Christian Mind
Date: 2004-11-19 10:32 pm (UTC)BIBLIOBUG I'm quoting Dr. Metzger of the Princeton Theological Seminary, who claims that there are over 5,000 extant copies of the New Testament dating to within a century (many to within 70 years) of Jesus’ death in Greek alone. That’s not counting the several thousand odd in Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, Aramaic, etc. The abundance of early copies is important because comparing copies – particularly different translations from different geographic areas – permits translators to re-create the original text very accurately. With so many copies produced by so many different people – the chances of any substantive error is infinitesimal. (“The Making of the New Testament,” Arthur Patzia)
The Old Testament is an oral tradition only preserved in writing after many generations of re-telling. However, archeology keeps confirming more and more of the ancient stories (no one believed that the Hittites existed until recently, for instance). So, it falls into the ‘pretty good bet’ category. Also, the Old Testament has been ‘self-validated’ through prophecies fulfilled. (“The Messiah in the Old Testament,” Walter Kaiser)
KICKAHA "You realize that the Bible is at best questionable in accuracy due to the multiple flawed translations and versions?”
BIBLIOBUG I don’t realize that at all. The New Testament is HIGHLY accurate, with no major Christian doctrine in dispute, and the Old Testament is also pretty darned good. How do you justify “the Bible is at best questionable in accuracy…” an unsupported assertion at odds with the vast majority of biblical scholarship? Please explain.
KICKAHA “Remember, you have yet to make a plausible argument for the existence of a soul, so invoking that as a more precious item is not a logical and rational counter-argument.”
BIBLIOBUG Didn’t know I needed to, but here goes. Every human society that I’ve ever heard of has independently arrived at the concept of a soul (“Moral Animal,” Robert Wright, “The Power of Myth,” Joseph Campbell). Wishful thinking? Perhaps. More likely to be the result of primary experience (Occam’s razor).
Spirituality is built in to human beings. Using sophisticated brain-imaging techniques. Dr. Andy Newberg of the University of Pennsylvania, author of “Why God Won't Go Away,” has documented changes in blood flow in particular regions of the brain during prayer and meditation. Generally speaking, animals do not develop nor long retain useless attributes. Therefore a built-in ‘prayer mechanism’ argues powerfully for a recipient of prayer (God) and a generator of prayer (a soul).
Finally, subtle measurements of terminally ill patients show that at death, the patient loses a few fractions of an ounce that can not be accounted for by any known physiologic mechanism. What leaves? I speculate it is the soul departing.
In sum, I present three arguments for the existence of the soul (1) primary experience – admittedly subjective but extraordinarily wide-spread, (2) the existence of a “prayer mechanism,” inherent in the brain, implying the existence of a soul, and (3) people lose weight at death, which I speculate is the soul departing.
-- TO BE CONTINUED --
Re: Christian Mind
Date: 2004-11-19 10:34 pm (UTC)Please do not contact me. Ever. For anything.
Got it?
Re: Christian Mind
Date: 2004-11-19 10:38 pm (UTC)Thanks, bibliobug, for making LJ just that little bit less open and inviting.
I'm stunned. I have never, not once in my online life, encountered someone this predatorily self-centered. You're something else.