First, let me congratulate you on your ascention to Geekhood. Now that I have tracked you down (running a search for Kickaha turned up some guy in Estonia - lots of Cyrillic, no South Park cartoon).
I can't resist the opportunity to answer your various posts - but I can't figure out how to do it other than to post here, so...
KICKAHA “You understand that the Old Testament and New Testament describe two fundamentally opposed ideologies? That using a single verse, Leviticus 20:13, as a justification for political agenda is more than a little perverse when say, Leviticus 15:19 is ignored? (I mean, if it's the true word of God, it's ALL the true word of God, right?) Let's see, that's scientific, cultural and political truths there...”
BIBLIOBUG I understand nothing of the kind. Why do you believe that the Old and New Testaments are “fundamentally opposed ideologies” when virtually every one else sees the New as a development and fulfillment of the Old? Please explain.
You assume too much, sir. I do not use any of Leviticus as a justification for a political agenda. How do you know what my political agenda is, anyway?
The Old Testament is the story of the growth of human understanding. To paraphrase “Gift of the Jews,” by Thomas Cahill, “You can see God grow from a trivial local deity to YHWH from Abraham to Moses.” God didn’t change, our understanding did. Just as you do not teach a two-year-old in the same way that you instruct a 12-year-old, God delivered different messages at different times. The graduate course (to stretch the analogy as far as possible) was Jesus’ ministry, wherein he promised to “throw down the House of David,” and gave instructions that supersede the Old Testament.
KICKAHA “So evolution is a reasonable alternative to creationism in your book? The world evolved through a few billion years, not a few thousand? Dinosaurs actually roamed the earth, and were not placed in fossil form by Satan to toy with us?”
BIBLIOBUG Evolution isn’t a reasonable alternative. Evolution happened and is still happening. We have fossil evidence, (“Lucy,” “Origins Revisited” Leaky) genetic evidence (“The Human Evolution Coloring Book, 2e” Collins), observational evidence (“The Beak of the Finch: A Story of Evolution in Our Time,” Jonathan Weiner) and experimental evidence (slow, dark, lake chiclids are switched with their near cousins, light-colored, fast, stream chiclids, within four generations, they have reversed characteristics – sorry, can’t find cite, published years ago in Science magazine). Any scientific theory with that much going for it gets my vote.
Do I think that Genesis is scientifically accurate and complete? No. Do I believe that it is – in broad strokes – the story of creation as filtered through the mind and experience of a primitive, ancient, desert Semite? Yes, I do.
It is an error to assume that evolution and creationism are mutually exclusive. No one knows how long a day in the mind of God is, after all (to borrow from the Scopes trial). I believe that God can use any mechanism He chooses – including the Big Bang and biological evolution – His wonders to perform.
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Christian Mind
Date: 2004-11-19 10:19 pm (UTC)First, let me congratulate you on your ascention to Geekhood. Now that I have tracked you down (running a search for Kickaha turned up some guy in Estonia - lots of Cyrillic, no South Park cartoon).
I can't resist the opportunity to answer your various posts - but I can't figure out how to do it other than to post here, so...
KICKAHA “You understand that the Old Testament and New Testament describe two fundamentally opposed ideologies? That using a single verse, Leviticus 20:13, as a justification for political agenda is more than a little perverse when say, Leviticus 15:19 is ignored? (I mean, if it's the true word of God, it's ALL the true word of God, right?) Let's see, that's scientific, cultural and political truths there...”
BIBLIOBUG I understand nothing of the kind. Why do you believe that the Old and New Testaments are “fundamentally opposed ideologies” when virtually every one else sees the New as a development and fulfillment of the Old? Please explain.
You assume too much, sir. I do not use any of Leviticus as a justification for a political agenda. How do you know what my political agenda is, anyway?
The Old Testament is the story of the growth of human understanding. To paraphrase “Gift of the Jews,” by Thomas Cahill, “You can see God grow from a trivial local deity to YHWH from Abraham to Moses.” God didn’t change, our understanding did. Just as you do not teach a two-year-old in the same way that you instruct a 12-year-old, God delivered different messages at different times. The graduate course (to stretch the analogy as far as possible) was Jesus’ ministry, wherein he promised to “throw down the House of David,” and gave instructions that supersede the Old Testament.
KICKAHA “So evolution is a reasonable alternative to creationism in your book? The world evolved through a few billion years, not a few thousand? Dinosaurs actually roamed the earth, and were not placed in fossil form by Satan to toy with us?”
BIBLIOBUG Evolution isn’t a reasonable alternative. Evolution happened and is still happening. We have fossil evidence, (“Lucy,” “Origins Revisited” Leaky) genetic evidence (“The Human Evolution Coloring Book, 2e” Collins), observational evidence (“The Beak of the Finch: A Story of Evolution in Our Time,” Jonathan Weiner) and experimental evidence (slow, dark, lake chiclids are switched with their near cousins, light-colored, fast, stream chiclids, within four generations, they have reversed characteristics – sorry, can’t find cite, published years ago in Science magazine). Any scientific theory with that much going for it gets my vote.
Do I think that Genesis is scientifically accurate and complete? No. Do I believe that it is – in broad strokes – the story of creation as filtered through the mind and experience of a primitive, ancient, desert Semite? Yes, I do.
It is an error to assume that evolution and creationism are mutually exclusive. No one knows how long a day in the mind of God is, after all (to borrow from the Scopes trial). I believe that God can use any mechanism He chooses – including the Big Bang and biological evolution – His wonders to perform.
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